Curse

WillOrWil · May 27, 2005, 08:59 PM // 20:59

I've been playing a monk for awhile now. I'm up to level 20 and almost done with the game. So I thought I would FINALLY post up some info for everyone to read so they can understand why in some groups they die more than with others.

1. Most of the time you NEED a warrior in the group. The warrior has higher AC than any other class. The warrior is the perfect meat shield to sit there and take the full brunt of the enemy's attack. If a warrior is shielding well, I can heal an entire group easily and also attack with no problems at all.
An elementalist is NOT a good meat shield. I don't care how much damage you do. All it takes is one spell caster (from any profession) who sits there, taking hit after hit after hit (without running away), to drain ALL of my energy healing them so I can heal no one else not even myself. For the good of the group and a successful mission...please...casters...RUN when you are taking heavy damage. Why? Because if you don't it is your fault people die or that I let you die so I can heal everyone else. You are not a warrior, do NOT tank!

2. Spells have a range. Everyone should know that. If not, then you do now. If you run away from the group or the group splits into different directions you are causing your own death. Why? Because that means, as a monk, I have to run from one place to another to cast a heal. That increases the time between the heals you will recieve and decreases the chances that you will be the one healed. This can be EASILY solved by staying together as a group.

3. Avoid the poison water/areas as much as possible. If your plan is to lure one of two of the enemy into the poison and then fight them IN the poison...you are making healing 100 times more difficult for the monk. For not only did you poison yourself, you poisoned every person in the group...even the monk. That drains my heals faster than you can imagine.

4. So you found a really great vampiric item. That is wonderful for you! But you just added a major headache for your monk. Constantly healing you means we are constantly draining our energy. That means we will heal less in any upcoming battle. If you insist on using a vampiric item put it on your weapon and ONLY bring it out while you are fighting! Don't keep it on you so I have to drain my energy healing you every 10 seconds.

5. Do not insult your monk! Do not tell us what spells to use if you've never played a monk before! A) Insulting your monk only means we will stop healing you. It is just that simple. B) Telling us what spells to use or not to use is pretty futile as well because we CANNOT change our skills in the middle of a mission. Also if you've never played a monk before you have no idea what we go through and have no idea what is the best heal or isn't the best heal.

6. Do NOT rush into battle after battle. Monks, as well as other casters, need time to recharge their energy. If you insist on running into battle after battle YOU are responsible for your own death because you are not giving ME, your monk, time to fully recharge so I can heal. If you cannot be patient then you will learn patience as you wait for me to rez you.

7. Bring a rez. I don't care what class or profession you are. Bring a rez. Have you noticed that some groups of monsters run through the lines and target the healers or casters first? Have you even noticed that at all? Monks die. If we are the ONLY ones to have a rez then you just lost the mission for everyone. Also, if you do have a rez and don't know if others do or don't...play it safe...rez the monk FIRST! Or, at the very least, ASK everyone who does or does not have a rez. It is just that simple!

8. This is a game meant for co-operative play. Think as a group and not as an individual. Work as a team. If you don't the chances of a successful mission is slim. All it takes is one person in a group to lose the mission for everyone. It really is just that simple.

9. So you are a level 20 and want to show off by going into lower level areas and enter missions with everyone. That's great! You feel INVINCIBLE! You are Mr.Big&Bad! Know what? You aren't. You still take damage and heavy damage at that. Don't do the items I listed in 1-8 or you "will" die. And if you do die by doing items 1-8 then don't get mad and leave the mission. That just shows immaturity of the highest order.

10. Be nice to your monk. We try our hardest to keep you alive. We do our best and it is more exhausting than you can imagine. Know what? The people that are nicest to me I try the hardest to keep alive. Keep that in mind the next time you party with a monk.

Other monks, feel free to add your own items to this list. I think this will be a great way to get people to understand and appreciate just what we do and what we have to deal with.

Thanks!

Lews · May 27, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

I love checking my list of ignored people, and if they are in my party, I refuse to heal them or res them. Other monks know what I mean, the black-book of those I refuse to heal.

I hate it when people go, 'wow, u suck monk'. Have they ever considered that when I say, 'wait, hold back, mana recharging' they should listen? Or that one monk can not heal 7 other people at once? Monks don't have alot of mana, and I'm lucky I found a +19 energy bone idol, and 50 mana may be alot, but one monk can't go through the whole mission without stopping!

Good list!

WillOrWil · May 27, 2005, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Thanks!

I thought I was the only one to have a "do not heal" list. LOL I only add the worst of the worst on there, but after last night I'm thinking of expanding it to people that act like immature 10 or less years olds.

Being a monk sucks a lot of the time. I've decided that as soon as I finish the game with my monk I will only ever play a monk with my guild from then on. It just isn't worth it with any other group after that as good "monk friendly" groups are just too rare.

Doctor Anomalo · May 27, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41

i must be in alesia's black book because she just lets me die every time.

cristidam · May 27, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

i agree with you on all points. great post. although i had very few insults, i did experience some of the other points. some of my best PUGs were when at the end of a mission someone would say good healing or other encouraging thing. we need that from time to time to compensate the times when we dont do that good. like one time after i just ascended, i got into a team and went to do the dragon's lair mission. being my first time there i wasnt aware of the constant life drain until into the mission and didnt know what to do but spam heal party which drained all my energy leaving none to heal at the very first battle and of course we lost. i got so upset and sad at that moment. all my confidence had vanished and it made me think that mission was impossible and i couldnt even dare try again. this is where alesia taught me a valuable lesson on how to heal properly on my later attempt.

Axehilt · May 27, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Always have some form of damage resistence/avoidance. No matter what your class, it's very likely that your current build would be made better by including some form of Armor buff, Evade/Block skill, Stun/Knockdown skill, and if nothing else an insta-cast Run Speed buff. When you become the target of 2+ mobs/players, activate that power. Not only will you survive longer, your monk's heals will be that much more efficient.

Strongly consider a self-heal. Some builds this doesn't work well on, but many classes can easily squeeze in an effective means of self-heal without taking much of a reduction in offensive power. If your primary attribute(s) don't currently have a heal in them, consider reducing them a bit - for instance, the 36 points it takes to increase an attribute from 10->12 might be better used to increase one of your other attributes from 0->7. This is situational and build-dependant - sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it isn't. Certain classes, Elementalists in particular, have extremely limited options for self-healing and should focus on their Armor/Evasion/etc skills instead.

Strongly consider skills which help your party. Along the same lines of my first two suggestions, it should be pretty obvious that stuff that helps not only you but the entire party will be that much more effective at keeping your party alive. Again, you'll have to examine whether each skill/attribute is going to severely hurt your overall ability to deal damage, and decide whether it's worth it to take the defensive ability.

DismalClown · May 27, 2005, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Good points.

I always tell people I'm resting after a fight and they always just go on ahead. I've almost given up on that point. And not only am I not rested but people are still low on health and poisoned and hexed and they just run on. How can you get to level 20 and be this stupid?

I will tell casters to stop tanking. Do these people have brains? Let the tank tank damn it! That's his job. If I start getting targeted I run, it's not that hard.

And about telling a healer what skills to use, I really hate that, I will probable just quit the group if someone tells me how to do my job. I have had people demand I use mending on them, not even asking me if I had it with me. Sorry I like to keep my energy for everyone not just you.

And your point about being nice to your monk. Good lord, I had someone insult me because I was in the back healing. Called me wus. And this was a level 18 or so. I quit that group fast. Insult your monk for healing way to go.

WeiPing · May 27, 2005, 10:06 PM // 22:06

I'm convinced monks are the most over-worked, and least appreciated class. Sure, in town, it's "OH MY GOOSES, WE NEED A MONK!", but as soon as you're on the battlefield, it's nothing but flak.

Dirkiess · May 27, 2005, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Great points all of you and i agree more people need to read this.
Have a banner in the game, " Be Nice to your Monk, or you may regret it in mid battle".

I haven't been a monk since Beta period, but i appreciate everything a Monk can do to keep me alive in the midst of one serious fight. I know if i do my job right in keeping the Monk alive along with other classes being a Warrior/Monk myself, I know they will do everything they can to keep me doing my job right.

I also have an Ele/Monk i am building, and it's one kick arse Ele. But i still rely on the Monk and stick to the Back as much as possible, unless there is one huge group of Mobs attacking, then i go in with all my skills, to defeat them as quick as possible, but healing myself at the same time so the Monk has less work to do on me and can work on the others.

I appreciate all the Work a Monk does, and always thank them if they have done a Superb Job at the end of the Mission. If they are new players, i always applaud them too, especially if they are still getting used to the character. This can only lead to more good Monks, a well as other classes.

Great Post.

WillOrWil · May 27, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Yes! I forgot to add that one in! Thanks Axehilt!

11. I might be a Mo/Me but I'm not your Mommy. Bring your own heals! You might be an excellent and monk friendly person but 99% of the time there will be AT LEAST 2 other people in the group that aren't. If you notice your health is dangerously low please feel free to heal yourself, trust me...your monk will not mind and, in fact, greatly appreciate it!

Thanks to Cristidam for reminding me of this one!

12. If you are forming a party of six, one monk all alone without any assistance will not be enough to keep you alive in the harder missions. If you are forming a party of eight, sometimes two monks all alone without any assistance will not be enough to keep you alive in the harder missions. If you are a caster, consider helping out your monk by bringing along some heal spells and healing! If you are the one forming the party...remember, the more monks you have the easier time of staying alive you will have!

Lastly, DismalClown, thank you for reminding me to say this!

MENDING. For those of you who love having the monk place that spell on you, you must know this. It slows our recharge time down and it also decreases our maximum energy! The more mendings we do, the more the effects of it accumulates. If I place it on all 7 of the other people in my group then I am completely and utterly useless as a healer. I've had a group before who didn't move one inch until I placed mending on ALL of them. And then they were suprised and angered when I couldn't heal them fast enough and they died. Umm...what else did you guys expect? You SERIOUSLY handicapped me and expected me to still heal at peak performance!

Asrial · May 27, 2005, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Good informational post!

Awol Duteq · May 27, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Just a note to the 'elementalists..RUN' part. I find that if you run TOWARDS the tank and get on the other side of him chances are you will 'dump' the mob onto the tank and saving yourself quite a headache rather than running around aimlessly.

WillOrWil · May 27, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awol Duteq

Just a note to the 'elementalists..RUN' part. I find that if you run TOWARDS the tank and get on the other side of him chances are you will 'dump' the mob onto the tank and saving yourself quite a headache rather than running around aimlessly.

EXCELLENT advice! That is something I do regularly but didn't even think of putting up! Thank you so much for writing that!

Whenever I do that I always feel bad about dumping so many enemies onto the tank. That is until I maxed out my Healing and got my Divine Favor high enough where when I dump the enemies on the tank I can then immediately use "Heal Other" and heal close to 200 health on the tank.

Rahne Sinclaire · May 27, 2005, 11:12 PM // 23:12

As a WAR, I usually try to have Mending on myself as much as possible... Sure, it slows my energy regen down to a near halt, but that's the glory of Adrenaline skills.
Not to mention Healing Signet... 144 health gain is a very significant help.

Phantom Force · May 27, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillOrWil

I've been playing a monk for awhile now. I'm up to level 20 and almost done with the game. So I thought I would FINALLY post up some info for everyone to read so they can understand why in some groups they die more than with others.

5. Do not insult your monk! Do not tell us what spells to use if you've never played a monk before! A) Insulting your monk only means we will stop healing you. It is just that simple. B) Telling us what spells to use or not to use is pretty futile as well because we CANNOT change our skills in the middle of a mission. Also if you've never played a monk before you have no idea what we go through and have no idea what is the best heal or isn't the best heal.

10. Be nice to your monk. We try our hardest to keep you alive. We do our best and it is more exhausting than you can imagine. Know what? The people that are nicest to me I try the hardest to keep alive. Keep that in mind the next time you party with a monk.

You know I think you did a really nice job for the Monk class. But I have to disagree with some aspects of 5 and 10. I agree you should not insult your monk and be nice to him only if he does his job. That you shouldn't cause problems. But what about when you have a Monk with what I call Whitemage syndrome? Whm Syndrome is the healers thinking they know everything, then blaming everyone else, thinking they are best b/c everyone needs them? Well tough for that Monk. I had a monk today who was stupid enough to pull mobs and get himself killed then blame the party and our 2nd monk for not keeping him alive. Second during Thunderhead mission the king died because neither healer healed the King. Instead of saying oops my mistake he takes it out on the party. That's when I got fed up and told him off. Telling everyone this kid has Whm syndrome thinking he is the best. So what does this 12 year old do, tells them to boot me and some others or else he leaves. Of course everyone else is too afraid to lose a monk so they don't speak up. Needless to say I've no respect for monks like that or players that listen to monks like that. Second I finished that mission with henchmen, while they still prolly died 5x because of their moronic Monk.

I agree do not create problems with monks for no reason, but for all those players out there with courage and pride, I say stand up to the poor Monks who act like this. Respect and love the good ones but stand your ground and don't be afraid of the bad ones. You can always get henchmen if it comes to it. I'd rather have Alesia tank and raise her myself then listen to someone blame everyone else for his/her stupidity.

WillOrWil · May 27, 2005, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Force

You know I think you did a really nice job for the Monk class. But I have to disagree with some aspects of 5 and 10. I agree you should not insult your monk and be nice to him only if he does his job. That you shouldn't cause problems. But what about when you have a Monk with what I call Whitemage syndrome? Whm Syndrome is the healers thinking they know everything, then blaming everyone else, thinking they are best b/c everyone needs them? Well tough for that Monk. I had a monk today who was stupid enough to pull mobs and get himself killed then blame the party and our 2nd monk for not keeping him alive. Second during Thunderhead mission the king died because neither healer healed the King. Instead of saying oops my mistake he takes it out on the party. That's when I got fed up and told him off. Telling everyone this kid has Whm syndrome thinking he is the best. So what does this 12 year old do, tells them to boot me and some others or else he leaves. Of course everyone else is too afraid to lose a monk so they don't speak up. Needless to say I've no respect for monks like that or players that listen to monks like that. Second I finished that mission with henchmen, while they still prolly died 5x because of their moronic Monk.

I agree do not create problems with monks for no reason, but for all those players out there with courage and pride, I say stand up to the poor Monks who act like this. Respect and love the good ones but stand your ground and don't be afraid of the bad ones. You can always get henchmen if it comes to it. I'd rather have Alesia tank and raise her myself then listen to someone blame everyone else for his/her stupidity.

Good point. I honestly didn't even know monks like that existed. When I was playing my Warrior/Monk character I never ran across people like that. Now as a Mo/Me I rarely ever get the chance to play with any other monks besides Alesia (the healer hench). You are totally correct, though. If someone does run across an immature monk like that then feel free to rip him a new one! He definately deserves it.

LathalDraugr · May 28, 2005, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Well I have to say that my experience is that of all the classes monk is generally the home to the most egotistical, self-centered and often just plain bad players. From my experience of primary player monks about 80% are worse than the henchmen, about 10% are better and very handy to have and another 10% are also better than the henchmen but remind you of it every 5 seconds. Not complaining about the good monks out there but many monks are in it just to be the centre of attention and feed their egos.

WRT to the points you raised number 1 applies to all spellcasters, Necros, Elementalists and Monks. It's just sensible teamwork, warriors should take the hits.

Number 2 is a good general rule but has no relevance to warriors in general and W/Mos in particular as they have to run ahead to keep up their adrenaline and to keep aggro away from the casters and rangers.

3. I've seen plenty of monks stand about in poisoned water too.

4. If they're using a vampiric weapon then don't heal them perhaps? It's not a monks job to keep the health bars at maximum contrary to what a lot of players seem to think, it's to keep the team alive.

5. As far as being "armchair gamers", there are plenty monks who are terrible for this.

6. Instead of lecturing others about what it's like to play a monk try playing another class. When you have learned how adrenaline and summoned minions work come back and we can talk. Casters are not the only players in the game, both warriors and summoner necros are far more effective if they can keep up a good momentum. While your average monk is sitting there waiting for his energy to reach maximum because he tried to keep everyones health at max my summoned minions are dying very quickly but if we just ignore the monk my minions take most of the damage while dealing some of their own rendering the monk redundant for a bit, meaning they don't need to use energy.

7.Again something relevant to all classes and players, please don't assume you being a monk and you being a good player are connected. All classes can be used by players of all types.

8. Yes co-operation also involves listening to others. Being a monk does not make you an expert at how the game works usually it doesn't even make you an expert on how your class works. Learn how others work before demanding that parties fit solely around you please.

9. Again nothing to do with being a monk or not and it should be pointed out that up until Kryta most level 20s are effectively invincible unless you just stand there doing nothing. Both my lvl 20 N/Mo and W/Mo can wipe out the Charr army in the wall mission and survive opening the gates in Nolani easily (both solo). If a level 20 player gets killed in a party before Henge and probably further it's entirely down to laziness on their part.

10. Be nice to all other players , monk or not. If they make a mistake or simply don't do what you thought they would instead of flaming them try to explain what you thought they were going to do or make suggestions to improve the quality of play. Unfortunately i've seen far too many players go "OMG u guys suck, NOOBS" and run off and the funny thing is 9/10 the mission gets easier after that.

I've also seen plenty of players let their tempers hurt them more than any hurridly typed insult ever hurt anybody else. For an example see the people who didn't believe me when I said it was ok to attack glint and quit causing them to have to restart a mission, all because of a lack of trust or patience or the countles number of players who have gotten angry at a simple mistake made by a new player and quit minutes from the end of a mission we go on to complete.

As for keeping in mind what you said about keeping alive those nicest to you. Well I do, thats why with the exception of Mursaat heavy missions i prefer to play with healer henchmen. I think you'd be hard pressed to find players of other classes who confess to lowering the effectiveness of a team solely to feed their ego. I know I certainly play to the best of my abilities regardless of whether the team is letting me order them about or is "being nice" to me.

Basically the problem is that the monk class seems to attract the most egotistical and self-centered players in the same way the warrior class attracts the more headstrong no-tactics zerg-rush kind of crowd, thats not to say all the players who use this class are like that just that certain classes attract certain kinds of players.

Jwh6913 · May 28, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43

sigh, I have had a horrible experience trying to get throug thunderhead keep- there were 2 groups where the tanks were insulting me a lot for using orison of healing- I were down to 0 energy and orison req 5 to cast whoich you think I'm gonna use? heal other whioch costs 10 or orison? I'm taking orison boosted with divine boon any day over heal other just for energy management. it can heal for 120 hp a cast easy you don't need the extra 40 hp that minute.

Also, It's usually aren't the monk's fault if you decided to go against their advice and stood under 2 groups of giants throwing rocks, archers and beat up the group underneath them... you'll get wiped. gaurantee it. IDIOTS!
I finally got to ring of fire, with a group who knew how to manage my resources correctly.

WillOrWil · May 28, 2005, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Wow, LathalDraugr, the POV you have is just...oozing with bias. Hmm....how can I put it? First, re-read the title of the thread. Then re-read your post. Then try and actually reading all the posts in this thread. You will see how wrong and out of line you are. Second, you obviously do not like people who play monks. You wrote twice that we who play monks are the "most egotistical, self-centered and often just plain bad players". My question is, are you here to engage in a discussion or to just do what everyone else does online and continue your snide treatement of monks?

Jwh6913 · May 28, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26

LathalDraugr- what's your character's name?

I'd like to put you on my list of DNH

that's all